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Discussion of Pandora related stuff Here's the place for your questions, or for discussion planed features of Pandora

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Old 15.07.2009   #11
Shadow dream
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Default AW: Screens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gi View Post
Sector connections are also not randomized. Though theoretically possible, this has some issues.
I once read about a map-maker that did that stuff (and I know you tested it )
did he (who ever) got it to work?

Shadow
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Old 15.07.2009   #12
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Default Re: AW: Screens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow dream View Post
I once read about a map-maker that did that stuff (and I know you tested it )
did he (who ever) got it to work?

Shadow
That actually sounds like a rational proposition. While not possible within the app itself, an external app should be able to generate parameters with minimal user input.

You are working with relatively fixed galactic resource tables. I could see where a pseudo random generator could be made to spit out various combinations and permutations, within defined limits. It could be a bit tedious to code, but that is what computers are for.
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Old 15.07.2009   #13
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Default Re: AW: Screens

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Originally Posted by reheat View Post
That actually sounds like a rational proposition. While not possible within the app itself, an external app should be able to generate parameters with minimal user input.

You are working with relatively fixed galactic resource tables. I could see where a pseudo random generator could be made to spit out various combinations and permutations, within defined limits. It could be a bit tedious to code, but that is what computers are for.
Well, we currently actually use an external Program to input certain Parameters for the Sector Content creation... like Maximum Sector Size, Maximum Amount of Astroids per Sector,...etc...

And a Sector Randomizer would be incompatible with our Map since we'll need some of the Sectors for the X2 and the Pandora Plot...
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Old 15.07.2009   #14
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Default AW: Screens

hm, we won't make such a thing since we want a story-compatible map. if we'd use such a thing then only for our new sectors

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Old 15.07.2009   #15
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Default Re: Screens

aaand I think you meant this: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=223924
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Old 15.07.2009   #16
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Default Re: AW: Screens

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Originally Posted by Shadow dream View Post
hm, we won't make such a thing since we want a story-compatible map. if we'd use such a thing then only for our new sectors

Shadow
Properly coded and you could have storyline specific overlays. It's how the user can select the "active or not" storyline in X3 reunion.

Of course this ultimately depends on how interested people might be in something like this nowdays. What is the specific gain in having a randomized universe? User selectable sizes? affils? I already noticed some people here have remarked they havent played X2 in quite some time. Not surprizing with 2 newer X3 apps out there to work with. I'm kind of the odd man out as this is all new to me ATM.
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Old 15.07.2009   #17
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Default AW: Screens

In my opinion expanding the randomization way beyond what we have now doesn't make much sense. You can create custom maps by using the in-game galaxy editor or the available external editors. You can always use a custom map in newer X games.
But next time you play the custom map, it's the same again.

Now, if you want to play the X2 story line again you're tied to the original map. If carefully done, this map can be modified as well without breaking the story mode.
But all attempts to change the original map I've seen so far cling to the original map and just add some sectors. But if you have played the game before, you still know the best place to build a factory of some sort, you still know where to find some equiment and so on.
By randomizing sector building you have to discover the universe again. Ok, you still know where Akeela's Beacon is, but you no longer know if there's a station of a certain kind, where to buy a Argon Titan and so on.

Is this worth the effort with only a few X2 players around? Well, my answer is: yes! I have restarted this game so often, to test those scripts, to test if the configuration values are used correctly - and everytime the sectors look different. Sometimes I don't want to restart again, I want to keep the save, just because some sectors are so awesome.

Of couse, we could create more random things. But the fact, no other mod ever used random things in such a way - or even has configuration values for this stuff - should tell you something about the difficulties we had to face. I'm not sure, but even X3 mods doesn't provide something like this - and as far as I see it's much easier to do this in X3.
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Old 16.07.2009   #18
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Default Re: AW: Screens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gi View Post
Is this worth the effort with only a few X2 players around? Well, my answer is: yes! I have restarted this game so often, to test those scripts, to test if the configuration values are used correctly - and everytime the sectors look different. Sometimes I don't want to restart again, I want to keep the save, just because some sectors are so awesome.
The most randomization would give, beyond shifting the ecconomic balance, is creating an unknown universe. This would create fertile ground to be explored. Some aspect of the game that the old hand user doesn't know. That is the value I see. You would know better than I as to how compelling that may be.

I have a past background in application development, and I have some time on my hands ATM. If there is a sense of consensus here, I'd be happy to try or help. I don't think JAVA is a good application development language. VB or C++ is the real way to go, but hey, everyone has their preferences.

Last edited by Chris Gi; 16.07.2009 at 09:48
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Old 16.07.2009   #19
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Default AW: Screens

Quote:
I have a past background in application development, and I have some time on my hands ATM. If there is a sense of consensus here, I'd be happy to try or help. I don't think JAVA is a good application development language. VB or C++ is the real way to go, but hey, everyone has their preferences.
It's not a question of preferences - we are limited to the X2 scripting engine. And the scripting engine is not possible to register a script written in C++, VB, or any other commonly used language. The configuration tool is written in JAVA for portability reasons. X2 can run on a MAC, Windows or Linux computer!

If you had some scripting experience, I would be more than willing to burden you with stuff to code...

@Lord_Dakier:
Quote:
I think you should Chris. Then I could have my Khaak custom start.

Race 1 change to a friendly Khaak and use them instead of using regular Khaak. Show me how to do it and I could even try something like this once I return.
This "Custom Starts" idea is about maps that are fully compatible with Pandora. "Fully compatible" means that these maps use all features of the Pandora system. I'm not yet sure what is needed for this. As I think of it now, such a map needs some adjustments as well as the scripts that build the universe. I have some ideas how to do this, but this is not a very urgent task at the moment.
But of course Pandora runs on every custom map - without some of the unique features. By changing those scripts, it may be possible to use the configuration system with any map.

From the discussion of your Khaak map idea in the Egosoft forum, I think you shouldn't bind this map to Pandora (or any other mod). Thus, everyone could use your map with his/her favourite mod.
From what I know of your ideas, Pandora seems to be the perfect mod though, because of the built-in race expansion scripts: the AI will colonize empty sectors.
But - as far as I understand what you want to do, this Khaak map needs some heavy scripting. This may break compatability with Pandora! The best thing to do is make a special version for Pandora. A Pandora version can be easily made once you have finished your map.

Now to your question:
You need a t-file with the following content to replace the name of Race 1:
Code:
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<language id="44">
 <page id="1266" title="Racenames" descr="Strings for the races">
  <t id="15">Friendly Khaak</t>
 </page>
</language>
Save this in your t directory under the name 44XXXX.xml, with XXXX being a number not used by any other of your t-files (and don't use 1700ff, these are for Pandora ).

Next you need an init-script with the following line:
Code:
load text XXXX
with XXXX being the number you assigned to your t-file. The next time you load a save game or start a new game, Race 1 will be named "Friendly Khaak".

But this of course was the easy part. Now you need to get rid of those unfriendly Khaak! I'm not quite sure how to do this. You sure need to set Khaak aggression level to 0, but this won't eliminate the Khaak altogether.

To give you any more advice, I need to know more about your idea....

Last edited by Chris Gi; 16.07.2009 at 09:32
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Old 16.07.2009   #20
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Default Re: Sector randomization

Thanks Chris, I will be able to look at this when I return from Ireland... currently in the middle of downloading X3 lol. My old X3 is lost and I'm not buying an Irish X3 just incase I have an issue with it when I finish my computer in the UK. See how far I can get on X3 in a week and a half lol.

I could always set the Khaak rep level to 100 instead of it being -100 if you get me. I just need the Khaak to see the player as preferabally [cant spell that word for love nor money lol] friendly but if not neutral. The one issue here is however, you will always start off in Argon prime I think so as soon as you being you recieve a message from the Hive basically saying return to base with the captured discover you have.
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